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matty_mk1

matty_mk1

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PostSubject: Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit   Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit EmptySun Oct 31 2010, 21:41

Looking for a nice satnav and dvd doubledin unit.


Any recomendations?
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LOWANDSLOW

LOWANDSLOW

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PostSubject: Re: Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit   Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit EmptySun Oct 31 2010, 21:44

Pioneer navgate mate my dad has one in his motorhome and they are spot on !! Thumbs up
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guy
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guy

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PostSubject: Re: Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit   Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit EmptyMon Nov 01 2010, 19:21

yes the mfd3 with hard drive on.

Load up your music and rip it to mp3 on the drive, on board navigation, plug and play vw item with sd card slot, can play dvd'd and even plug a tv in and its oem fella !!

loads of em on the bay.


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matty_mk1

matty_mk1

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PostSubject: Re: Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit   Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit EmptyMon Nov 01 2010, 20:23

sweet cheers for that guy ill have a look at them. so theyll just plug into any VW yeah?
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guy
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guy

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PostSubject: Re: Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit   Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit EmptyMon Nov 01 2010, 23:17

They fit them in the mk5/6 oem.

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'08 LWB T5 Transprter. '90 MK2 3dr 1300 in white. '95 Mk3 3dr VR6 Highline. '97 mk4 5dr gti 20vi n indigo, '00 mk4 3dr Gti 20v, '91 MK2 5dr GTI in black.
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Stampers

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PostSubject: Re: Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit   Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit EmptyMon Nov 01 2010, 23:21

matty_mk1 wrote:
sweet cheers for that guy ill have a look at them. so theyll just plug into any VW yeah?
Nope. Any VW that is CAN-BUS enabled will be fine.
You'll have to go through the hassle of getting a CAN-BUS emulator for older cars.
An easy way to tell is look at the stereo wiring loom of the intended car.
If it has 2 ISO blocks, it'll be a lot of hassle. If it has a quadlock, you're pretty much good to go.

Pretty much anything post '03 (usually) will be CAN-BUS enabled. So some MK4's, Bora's, B5.5's will have it (the later ones).
My car is registered 2002 so unfortunately it isn't. And I'm currently going through the "pain-in-the-arse" process I mentioned above.

Original MFD units are ISO, and all other MFD units (MFD2, MFD3) are CAN-BUS.

And I'm with Guy on this one.
The new MFD units are so good. The new Phaeton comes shipped with the hard drive unit.
Good build quality with rock solid software.
Kenwood have also been issued to make an aftermarket variant exclusively for VW (if you'd prefer an aftermarket/OEM one)...

http://www.kenwood.eu/products/car/multimedia/receivers/DNX520VBT/details/
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matty_mk1

matty_mk1

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PostSubject: Re: Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit   Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit EmptyMon Nov 01 2010, 23:27

thanks for that stamps, really helpfull. it would be goin into an '04 car so im assuming it would be ok Smile

Whats the deal with updating the sat nav with these kinda things?
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Stampers

Stampers

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PostSubject: Re: Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit   Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit EmptyMon Nov 01 2010, 23:56

It's updatable via the new DVD navigation disc releases.
Whereas older MFD units used to have to read the disc for navigation, this loads it up on the hard drive.
It installs any new firmware updates via the DVD too.

If the car is an '04 plate, I don't think you can run an MFD2 or MFD3 unit though.
I'm not aware of any '04 plate cars that have the rounded rectangle shape in the dash where they would fit.
You can always modify the dash panels to fit it, but it is a lot of hassle.

Any cars PRE MK5 Golf tend to have the typical double din style square shape in the dash for typical din shaped units.
My advice would be get one of the aftermarket units that will fit this space better as it'll be less hassle in the long run.

Any of these units below are very good. All top of the range at the moment.
And all roughly the same price (if not less) than the MFD3.

Audio, Video & Sat Nav
Pioneer AVIC F20BT: http://www.pioneer.de/uk/products/25/111/241/AVIC-F20BT/index.html
Sony XNV-L77BT: http://www.sony.co.uk/product/in-car-navigation/xnv-l77bt
Kenwood DNX9260BT: http://www.kenwood-electronics.co.uk/products/car/navigation/all_in_one/DNX9260BT/

Audio & Video
Alpine IVA-W505R: http://www.alpine-electronics.co.uk/products/product-singleview/mobile-media-stations/iva-w505r.html

I'd say the Pioneer is the best bang for your buck, and the interface is very slick.
I had the top of the range Pioneer double-din DVD unit in the MK4. It was a great bit of kit.
And the new Sony units are very nice too. Tempted to get one myself.

It's all down to your personal preference.
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matty_mk1

matty_mk1

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PostSubject: Re: Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit   Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit EmptyTue Nov 02 2010, 00:00

Ah yeah i thought that might be the case for updating. yeah i wasnt sure if you could get a difference facia to suit the neer shape, but like you say its hassle.

I was looking at that pioneer you posted earlier and thought it looked pretty good, but then it should be for the money lol cheers for the info fella Thumbs up
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guy
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guy

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PostSubject: Re: Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit   Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit EmptyTue Nov 02 2010, 19:19

They do a totaly bang up to date mfd3 with the hd and all the stuff that firs a multi van and touran and it has the square sides that you are looking for....

like so...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-RNS510-MFD3-Sat-Nav-Touareg-Multivan-DVD-HDD-RNS-510-/130442973280?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1e5f01d060

There are updates available for free if you know the sites to get them from, plop the disc in and it reads it and off you go.

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matty_mk1

matty_mk1

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PostSubject: Re: Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit   Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit EmptyTue Nov 02 2010, 19:39

Cheers guy. Any idea how much 1 of them is new from VW? i read in PVW that the kenwood 1 is 999 fitted from VW.
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guy
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guy

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PostSubject: Re: Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit   Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit EmptyTue Nov 02 2010, 19:47

the mfd3 from vw when you buy a new vehicle is 1500+ so theyre cheap at 750, theyre really very good indeed, I know nothing about the kenwood unit though. try ringing the stealers and hold tight !!


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'08 LWB T5 Transprter. '90 MK2 3dr 1300 in white. '95 Mk3 3dr VR6 Highline. '97 mk4 5dr gti 20vi n indigo, '00 mk4 3dr Gti 20v, '91 MK2 5dr GTI in black.
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Ian83

Ian83

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PostSubject: Re: Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit   Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit EmptyTue Nov 02 2010, 22:44

http://www.kenwood-electronics.co.uk/products/car/vw/DNX520VBT/details/

That's a link to the Kenwood unit that VW/Skoda/Seat dealers are offering.
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Stampers

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PostSubject: Re: Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit   Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit EmptyWed Nov 03 2010, 11:47

guy wrote:
They do a totaly bang up to date mfd3 with the hd and all the stuff that firs a multi van and touran and it has the square sides that you are looking for....

like so...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-RNS510-MFD3-Sat-Nav-Touareg-Multivan-DVD-HDD-RNS-510-/130442973280?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1e5f01d060

There are updates available for free if you know the sites to get them from, plop the disc in and it reads it and off you go.

I didn't realise they did one with flat sides. That's pretty cool.
However, I dont think the face of the unit is flat.
The Touareg/Touran dash is slightly curved, and I assume the multivan is too, so the unit would fit in it width wise, but would protrude at the centre point meaning the unit wont sit flush with the fascia around it. the top and bottom will sit flush, but the centre will protrude slightly.

If you can live with that, then no worries, but I like things sitting flush.

Also, the newer MFD3 units run on newer CAN-BUS technology.
Essentially the same connection, but the signals going through the wires are slightly different. CAN-BUS essentially means you can run multiple signals through one cable, thus eliminating loads of cables wired up throughout the car. They modified that technology around 1 or 2 years ago and made the cables take far more data through them.

An easier way to explain is...

Scart leads: Require one cable for each service. (e.g. ISO connector)
Dial-up: Takes multiple signals through one cable. (e.g. CAN-BUS 1)
Broadband: Does the same, but far quicker. (e.g. CAN-BUS 2)

Cars before 2003/2004 all run on ISO connections (1 wire for each job).
Cars 2003/2004 onwards all run with CAN-BUS technology.
Cars 2008/2009 onwards are fitted with faster speed CAN-BUS technology that is required for all the new functions that modern cars now contain.

You can mod a CAN-BUS connection so that it can take newer faster signals, enabling you to run newer units like the MFD3. It's a little bit of work, but is achievable (you'd need a CAN-BUS 1.6 adaptor for anything pre 2008 but post 2003).
If you want to run any CAN-BUS units from a car with ISO connections, then you need a CAN-BUS emulator which is quite pricey for essentially a wiring harness. (roughly 80).

Just do a bit of research and find which unit and modifications you can live with. With the right knowledge, you can fit anything.
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guy
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guy

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PostSubject: Re: Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit   Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit EmptyWed Nov 03 2010, 19:36

The unit front is pretty flat. There is a curve but it's very minor.

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Ian83

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PostSubject: Re: Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit   Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit EmptyWed Nov 03 2010, 20:14

Stampers wrote:
guy wrote:
They do a totaly bang up to date mfd3 with the hd and all the stuff that firs a multi van and touran and it has the square sides that you are looking for....

like so...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-RNS510-MFD3-Sat-Nav-Touareg-Multivan-DVD-HDD-RNS-510-/130442973280?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1e5f01d060

There are updates available for free if you know the sites to get them from, plop the disc in and it reads it and off you go.

I didn't realise they did one with flat sides. That's pretty cool.
However, I dont think the face of the unit is flat.
The Touareg/Touran dash is slightly curved, and I assume the multivan is too, so the unit would fit in it width wise, but would protrude at the centre point meaning the unit wont sit flush with the fascia around it. the top and bottom will sit flush, but the centre will protrude slightly.

If you can live with that, then no worries, but I like things sitting flush.

Also, the newer MFD3 units run on newer CAN-BUS technology.
Essentially the same connection, but the signals going through the wires are slightly different. CAN-BUS essentially means you can run multiple signals through one cable, thus eliminating loads of cables wired up throughout the car. They modified that technology around 1 or 2 years ago and made the cables take far more data through them.

An easier way to explain is...

Scart leads: Require one cable for each service. (e.g. ISO connector)
Dial-up: Takes multiple signals through one cable. (e.g. CAN-BUS 1)
Broadband: Does the same, but far quicker. (e.g. CAN-BUS 2)

Cars before 2003/2004 all run on ISO connections (1 wire for each job).
Cars 2003/2004 onwards all run with CAN-BUS technology.
Cars 2008/2009 onwards are fitted with faster speed CAN-BUS technology that is required for all the new functions that modern cars now contain.

You can mod a CAN-BUS connection so that it can take newer faster signals, enabling you to run newer units like the MFD3. It's a little bit of work, but is achievable (you'd need a CAN-BUS 1.6 adaptor for anything pre 2008 but post 2003).
If you want to run any CAN-BUS units from a car with ISO connections, then you need a CAN-BUS emulator which is quite pricey for essentially a wiring harness. (roughly 80).


Just do a bit of research and find which unit and modifications you can live with. With the right knowledge, you can fit anything.

Where have you found this information about CAN-BUS systems used in VAG products from?

From the several course i have been on in my job (car tech - currently VAG group and previous Mercedes) all i have ever been taught about CAN-BUS is you have two different speed systems - Chassis CAN which is Engine, Auto (if fitted),ABS and Airbag (very high speed as safety critical) and a Body Can - basically anything thats not a safety feature. Also you have manufactures using fiber optics for Audio systems now and also LIN-BUS which is like CAN-BUS but single wire instead of twin wire.

I have never been told that CAN-BUS as used on the interior of a car for connecting things like the radio to the dash panel and steering wheel controls have they upped the speed as far as i have been told everything on a body CAN-BUS will work on any car as there all made to the same standard regardless of manufacture so all units will always communicate. I agree modern CAN-BUS systems are more sophisticated than older systems but there primary the same still regards speeds used.

Not saying what you have put is wrong it's just got me thinking as i have never heard of a speed up in the systems used. Only thing i can think of that speeds up and slows down signals is the central gateway which is hard wired to the diagnostic plug usually.
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Stampers

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PostSubject: Re: Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit   Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit EmptyWed Nov 03 2010, 21:14

Almost all pre 2008 cars run on CAN-BUS signals version 1.6.
So the MFD2 unit is usually a CAN-BUS 1.6 unit.
For example, this was fitted in the 2003-2007 Touareg.

The MFD3 is fitted in the 2008> Touareg, and runs on the CAN-BUS 2.0 signal.
It is the unit that requires the different signal to get all the functionality from it.
People have reported things like the unit randomly shutting down after a period of time, and steering controls not working. These are signal differences between 1.6 and 2.0 (if you fit an MFD3 in a car that is supposed to have an MFD2, you'll see these problems).

I think that the cars that are running 2.0 units have difficulty understanding a unit designed for a 1.6 car.
If you google "CAN-BUS 1.6 adaptor" you'll get some results that explain it all in much better clarity than I can.
It most probably isn't a change in the speed like you say (my bad for assuming) and more likely it is an issue of a different signal being sent.

There are companies who do 1.6 to 2.0 adaptors allowing newer 2008> units (MFD3) to be used in older cars with CAN-BUS (<2008).
See here for the kit...

http://www.uvworldwide.co.uk/ice-navigation/vw-touareg-t5-rns-510-can-bus-adapter-kit-16-to-20-incl-tv-fre-p-2751.html


I apologise if I'm completely wrong but yeah, that's what I gather.
I haven't fitted any, but I've researched it a fair bit so I dont get stuck with units that won't work with my car.
But by all means, please point out if any of it is rubbish!


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Ian83

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PostSubject: Re: Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit   Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit EmptyWed Nov 03 2010, 21:56

All i know about CAN-BUS it's all binary code. I think it might be the later stuff uses a longer signal length like 128bit instead of 56 bit. The longer the signal length the more different signals you can have. Which would explain older and new systems not interfacing for radio controls etc.
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awesome automotive



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PostSubject: Re: Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit   Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit EmptyTue Nov 09 2010, 09:13

if you were fitting a nav unit to a non canbus car then you don't need a so called canbus emulator
when you fit an aftermarket stereo to a canbus vehicle you need a canbus adapter to give the ignition live,handbrake illumination and speed pulse
the canbus adapter converts the signal from a digital to an analogue signal
so to fit one in a non canbus car using a canbus emulator (which is is completely pointless ,if it even exists in the first place) as where would you get the canbus signal from on a non canbus car???
you would have to actually physically run a cable for each connection that was missing i.e speed pulse
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Stampers

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PostSubject: Re: Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit   Sat-Nav DoubleDin unit EmptyTue Nov 09 2010, 09:58

awesome automotive wrote:
if you were fitting a nav unit to a non canbus car then you don't need a so called canbus emulator
when you fit an aftermarket stereo to a canbus vehicle you need a canbus adapter to give the ignition live,handbrake illumination and speed pulse
the canbus adapter converts the signal from a digital to an analogue signal
so to fit one in a non canbus car using a canbus emulator (which is is completely pointless ,if it even exists in the first place) as where would you get the canbus signal from on a non canbus car???
you would have to actually physically run a cable for each connection that was missing i.e speed pulse

Really?
Well from what I understand, that isn't the case.
And I don't mean just a Nav unit to a non CAN-BUS vehicle. I mean installing something like a genuine VW RCD200/VW Delta 6/VW MFD2 to a non CAN-BUS vehicle, such as one of the early production MK4 Golf's ('98-'02).
All aftermarket units (Kenwood etc) generally use ISO connectors which means they don't rely on CAN-BUS signals at all. So you don't need to worry about an emulator at all in that case as its simply plug and play. And to fit aftermarket to newer VW's, it's simply a case of buying a harness from Halfords.

The CAN-BUS emulator that I mentioned also gets referred to as an 'Interface Adaptor/Simulator'.
The illumination and ignition live do not translate correctly between non CAN-BUS and CAN-BUS enabled cars.
The 'Simulator/Emulator/Interface Adaptor' is essentially just an ISO to Quadlock connector that has a small circuit board attached to it (wrapped in heatshrink) that changes the signal needed for the MFD unit. Hence 'simulating' a car with CAN-BUS. This is what you need if you wish to install any CAN-BUS units into an early VW (pre 2003).

You can buy Quadlock to ISO harness adaptors but you won't get any illumination or ignition live through them.
This is what I mean...
http://www.nexxia.co.uk/product.asp?product_code=PC2-75-4&category=Harness%20Adaptor&section=

You have to buy an 'Interface Adaptor/Simulator/Emulator' to get the original functionality out of the unit in a non CAN-BUS vehicle. At about 10x the price of a standard Autoleads harness, you can tell it does something more.
Like this...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390237078945&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Here's a couple of the threads that I have looked over that mention about using a CAN-BUS 'Emulator/Simulator' to get the unit to illuminate and turn on/off when the ignition is switched...

http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/273958/1815462.aspx
http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/201936/1310995.aspx
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